GenesisRED said:
Feel like most of the rest of the group here should also have their loadouts more strictly defined. V obviously doesn't have a definitive canon loadout and even before Halo Infinite added RPG elements, the Master Chief's standard loadout was so varied that you could unironically argue nuclear yield explosives are a piece of standard equipment for him (for the record, not actually arguing Chief should get a nuke here, this is just to illustrate how ill defined his typical loadout is). Everyone here seems to use a wide array of weapons, actually defining what they're equipped with would make things a lot easier.
The armor itself broadly does not interface with foreign systems, that's what Cortana/the Weapon is for. Older generation Mjolnir, by and large, is sufficiently air-gapped that it's highly doubtful Major would be able to seriously impede the armor's functionality. Per Halsey, even a Smart AI physically housed within the armor only has partial control. There has been only one confirmed occasion where a hostile AI managed to remotely infiltrate a suit of Mjolnir, Ebullient Prism's infiltration of Team Black's GEN1 Mjolnir Black and even then, Ebullient Prism had very limited control over the armor, only being able to alter the audio and visual display readouts.
See AlsoSougenmu Somatic Link - Raito Labs (Custom Sandevistan)V, Major and Adam jensen (Cyberpunk 2077/Ghost in the shell/Deus Ex) vs Masterchief, Shepard and Isaac Clarke (Halo/Mass effect/Dead space)So already to begin with, the ability of even a powerful Forerunner ancilla to remotely brick a suit of Mjolnir is basically nonexistent. The only example of a remote hack was only able to alter the audio-visual display and happened prior to Ebullient Prism making himself known. Once Iona and Team Black were aware of the threat, Ebullient Prism never alters their suits' systems again. Presumably, this is because Ebullient was only able to infiltrate the armor when they were unaware of his existence and once they were alert, he was not able to infiltrate a second time. This would also explain why Guilty Spark never attempts to hijack the Master Chief's suit in the original trilogy.
Beyond that, the Master Chief currently differs in a few key ways from Team Black. First and foremost, John's GEN3 Mark VI is equipped with SPDR, a system designed to protect against hostile AI intrusion. In iLovebees, Melissa's SPDR successfully defended her against the Covenant AI, the Seeker. So on top of the existing air-gaps, his current armor does have dedicated software to protect from hostile intrusion. Likewise, the Weapon should also make hacking the Master Chief's armor infeasible as she was based directly on Cortana, constructed using similar methods and explicitly intended to engage and defeat her older sister. And Cortana prior to her death in Halo 4 defeated the Ascendant Justice's AI, the Infinity's original Smart AI, Aine, and a fragment of Mendicant Bias. Post Halo 5, a mere fragment of Cortana was able to steal control over the Domain from the Warden Eternal. As far as I know, she's the only UNSC AI to singlehandedly defeat Forerunner constructs.
This is a major leap. Humans being able to surpass AI in GITS isn't carte blanche to say they can beat any AI. Again, Cortana engaged Forerunner Ancilla on several occasions and was even victorious on two of them. And the Weapon, either by virtue of having similar origins to Cortana or being specifically designed to defeat Cortana (which she did successfully), should broadly compare to her.
Not only is there the aforementioned SPDR and the Weapon (conducting e-war is literally her primary function), but even baseline GEN2 Mjolnir was able to resist a Guardian's attenuation pulse, which is a multi-vector e-war attack.
I mean the entire reason why Edgerunners is problematic is that it's grossly at odds with the rest of the setting. So things being crazy there is kind of irrelevant, the reason why it's banned is that it's not consistent to begin with.
Cortana is… honestly not that special for reasons that other people have gone over before- I'm not familiar with them all, but she wasn't even impeded to my memory in halo one or what I played of two, she was more or less let in if my memory is correct, and fundamentally- kinda just brute forces her way through things… on the suit's(if what you mentioned is true) secondary external processor thing, not even being able to use the entire processing power of the suit. This is the last thing you want to do against any ghost in the shell characters you're fighting. The standard cyberwarfare Defenses consist of multiple layers of what's known as an "attack barrier," which is a semi-active defense that uses direct un-authorized access attempte, attacks, and the like to automatically breach and destroy whatever just attacked it. Cortana's method of hacking could be described as climbing inside of a gun barrel to get inside a fortress in this case. Even if she theoretically gets past, she'll have control of… a sacrificial proxy unit, which will immediately explosively self-destruct to sever the connection. If she does her standard trick of *transferring* herself over to the thing that she's trying to hack, this will kill her.
Halo's concept of cyber-warfare is… limited at best. It's flat out a technological gap. The software and hardware used for cyberwarfare in GITS is just, overall superior.
Second, vision and hearing being breached is flat out the worst thing to happen to you barring actual death, or access to your memories or something. A skilled hacker can and will simply show you whatever they want you to see, and will have you quite literally under their control. This implies that motoko can just turn chief against his allies fairly easily, without him having a clue.
"SPDR" qualifies as a basic barrier… uh, we're not talking about a brute force ai attack, we're talking an attack that usually is tailored to the target, and uses it's own responses against it. As mentioned, attack barriers are also used for attacks. In the first place, it can't adapt and be enhanced for the next attack by the person or ai, using it because it's a flat static program. Again, just a simple difference of scale. Almost certainly not an issue.
The AI shown is a general support AI used by the public security sections. They are in fact quite capable of hacking and other tasks, in SAC, I believe they were capable of breaking into the country's navigation systems(all the self-driving cars run on the same system)
In the first place, halo AI's are very closely related to uploaded humans/are actually uploaded humans, right? Really, that would place them… on the space level as an average cyberized person.
Not that special. The major is generally considered to be one of the best hackers, overall, in the setting. She's replicated the laughing man incident, standing in a public location, and breaching every person simultaneously without anyone noticing, overlaying what she wants them to see for every single person.
SPDR is not EWAR, it's cybersecurity. They are massively different things. EWAR can be a part of cybersecurity, but it is not.
EWAR, aka electronic warfare, is the basis of sensor warfare, and covers the "don't be detected" section of the survival onion. This includes things like jammers, stealth, sensors, illuminators, decoys, target processing, sensor networking, etc etc etc.
thermoptic camo actually counts as a form of ewar, as an active defense against being detected, IE stealth, in the IR, visual, and I think? Radar? Spectrums.
The reason I bring it up, is because the basic principles allow for the possibility of chief avoiding being breached, or rather his noted lack thereof, as halo, for the most part, doesn't use or function in terms of sensor warfare. He does not have a jammer or transmitter capable of drowning out transmissions that the major makes. Ironically the air-gapping here does more harm than good, meaning that there's not really any way for him or Cortana to disable the ability to transmit or receive, and with the visual and audio systems being vunerable, he's a perfect target for being controlled. I have no idea what an attenuation pulse is, but I have a feeling it's not actually e-war, as *I* can even withstand e-war(maybe not if you made me rub my face on a military spec jammer, but give a few feet and I'll be fine)
It's not something you withstand, it either makes you blind, or hard to see, or hear, but it doesn't *do* more than that.
MJ12 Commando said:
We have the official setting materials for literally everything in Edgerunners now. These official setting materials from the people who have final control of the IP make it clear that Edgerunners is ridiculously stylized and the feats in it are not meaningful, and saying "things go even crazier" just puts more weight against the idea that these 'feats' are meaningful.
"V is a fairly soft character" based on what? Based on your desire to canonize game mechanics? There is absolutely nothing to indicate V is anything more than a very good, very lucky, and very desperate Edgerunner, someone who can definitely rate in the top 50 of Solo of Fortune, but nevertheless those people are human and so is V. Nobody treats V as having some unique physiology or psychic powers or anything else besides the Relic in their head, even though you guys are claiming that they are ludicrously, absurdly special, as I said, you seem to think V is Captain Capitalism even as the game story does little to actually suggest this. They're just Some Guy with an artifact in their head who's in the wrong place at the wrong time and has the devil's luck.
No, it actually would be entirely sensible to conclude that his feats don't count because they couldn't happen in the books, because the setting means something. If the setting tells you that some things that happen in a licensed game can't happen, ignoring the setting to insist that this scene must have happened in the setting (that's what 'canon' means) in a way the setting tells you is impossible is writing "fanfiction," because you're actually ignoring the setting.
And as it happens, there's an easy and trivial explanation for why V can do these things in gameplay and yet these things are impossible in the setting. Because it's gameplay. Modeling the setting as it it actually exists would grossly devalue most weapons, fashion choices, and ware choices, or require significant overhauls of the world which would have cost impractical amounts to make things like melee and unarmed good (and even then it would be like... knives, not swords, because the benefit would be legality and concealability). Modeling combat as it actually exists in Cyberpunk would result in a high-budget Cruelty Squad, which would be a very risky game compared to 'shooter with significant RPG elements.' Much as Mike Thorton in Alpha Protocol cannot hulk out, glow red, and go into bullet-time while bouncing a rocket launcher off his pecs while wearing an Aloha Shirt, even though he can do this in game mechanics, V cannot deflect bullets with a sword or knife a light tank to death. That's just a gameplay conceit.
This is the easiest way to reconcile the game mechanics with the setting - and indeed, with the game itself, a game which has V going down to being punched in the face and has them dying to being shot in the head with a small-caliber pistol.
Please show me the place where cyperpunk 2077 is explicitly declared non-canon, and please provide an official addition source with which we can use to define v
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